Welcome to the White Shirt live comment thread for Handel’s “Il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno” from the Aix-en-Provence festival, starring Sara Mingardo (Disinganno), Sabine Devieilhe (Bellezza), Franco Fagioli (Piacere) and Michael Spyres (Tempo).
Emmanuelle Haïm conducts Le Concert d’Astrée, the staging is by Krzysztof Warlikowski. Further production details can be found on the Aix festival website, the video stream of the production is available through culturebox.
The libretto is available in Italian and German; in English, I could only find the libretto for the 1757 rework (here and here – the overall gist is the same) – if you have a link for the 1707, please add and share.
I’m here and ready to go!
LikeLike
On time today! And ready to start the culturebox stream in exactly one minute. 🙂
LikeLike
good evening! just woke up, now having culturebox running, just past the tortilla chip commercial and hitting pause to wait.
LikeLike
The one time I’m not working during one of these, but I have a dentist appointment! Maybe I can join later on…
LikeLike
would be great! We’ll be here a while…
LikeLike
start! but you can tell me if we should fast forward to the actual start?
LikeLike
clapping.. E.Haïm has taken her position!
LikeLike
9 p.m.! (or 2.a.m.)
let’s get started! 🙂
LikeLike
exciting! i love the oveture of this opera! to SD’s hip hopping!
LikeLike
Haim stepping up, can I squeal and throw with popcorn before the first note already?
LikeLike
oh, excuse me, i just woke up… need to rub eyes more.. it’s not SD! would be much better if it’s her hip hopping!
LikeLike
rocking off in tanktops to Baroque: I am getting teenage flashbacks (too bad they don’t involve Haim)
LikeLike
uh.. need a mezzo piacere.. but i think i just saw him kissing FF as well.. progressive, good!
LikeLike
yes, I caught that, too – also once in the glass casket during the pull-up sequence. Points for equal treatment!
LikeLiked by 1 person
(already back to SD being stoned…)
LikeLike
The guy is just a modell I think, not a singer?
LikeLike
Now it’s Devieilhe.
(how did Lang make it out okay? 😉 )
LikeLike
on the side, i loooove the overture!! (in case you missed my prev comment 😀 )
LikeLike
one of the best, if not the best!
Scrubbed the floor to it (the Haim recording) on Monday and didn’t even mind. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lang swooned a few times. _(:зゝ∠)_
LikeLike
at times I wondered how you made it out without fainting! 😉
LikeLike
…is this going to be one giant anti-drug add?
LikeLike
if so, does Handel count as a drug?
(and on that note, I’d like to buy the oboes the first beer of the night)
LikeLiked by 1 person
good! multiple messages! though while on ship i was advertising drugs doing you good! (them patches are great!)
LikeLike
Ah, Spyres and Mingardo are supposed to be the parents?
LikeLike
I guess so — Spyres’ pullover is just this side of Bridget Jones!
LikeLike
🙂
LikeLike
So, the story is that Bellezza snuck out to a KISS concert…?
LikeLike
that wasn’t what she overdosed with i hope!
LikeLike
i like how she’s singing this aria, it’s got this internal feeling to it, a bit stoned, a bit philosophical (to the audience) . i’ve only seen this seen in the flirting set up and really like this variation
LikeLike
“A little stoned, a little philosophical”: I want that on a shirt.
LikeLike
Da capo, and here we are with the dazzle – nice messa di voce by Devieilhe.
(Overall, I find this aria take a little less rounded than her Paris Ismene, but it’s just getting started)
LikeLike
Why is Belleza not staged more beautiful, she looks worn down from the start
LikeLike
…heroin chic?
(Is that still a thing?)
LikeLike
i wouldn’t say “worn down”. sort of how she is (for the character), which I quite like.. in term of making the story darker. The parents have just shown up!
LikeLike
oh, the recit is nice, very sculpted!
(and I guess Piacere is the drug dealer?)
LikeLike
i prefer his recit more to his singing 🙂 (i’m still having my own issues with digesting his voice…)
LikeLike
Maybe drugs is the new naked? (I remember a time when no production at the local theatre went without naked singers/actors)
LikeLike
*lol*
LikeLike
When I am tired enough, there are notes where I could swear that Fagioli is actually Bartoli.
LikeLike
MINGARDO SIGHTED.
LikeLike
….!!!!
LikeLike
and I guess my vision of perfection would include something along the line of coming home in the morning to a contralto making me a coffee and singing Handel. 😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
vivaldi would work too… she can lecture me *any* time
LikeLike
❤
(instead of working, you know i've gotten here…)
LikeLiked by 1 person
🙂
LikeLike
instead of sleeping, i’ve gotten here again…
LikeLiked by 1 person
Actually the parents are much cooler then the young folk
LikeLike
agree. Spyres is rocking the hell out of that aging leftist professor look.
LikeLike
also, the blond isn’t half bad on Mingardo.
LikeLike
even drug addicts brush teeth! more nice ads! could even put up her toothpaste brand
LikeLike
Colgate Dazzle? For the coloratura soprano on the road?
LikeLike
Oh, I just thought she would run away with the nurse
LikeLike
LIKE!
LikeLike
(thumbs up)
LikeLike
…I’m with Disinganno so far (to the surprise of absolutely no one)
LikeLike
i mesmerized by that hand slamming “disingannO!” (cap for super-natural low note)
LikeLike
yes, that!! No pressure, yet full.
LikeLike
This commentary is quite surreal without the live feed for reference. 😉
LikeLike
must look crazy – sorry, GGeek!
LikeLike
i completely disagree about the crazy bit!! if i was sitting in the dentist reading this i might reschedule my appointment and tune in 😀
LikeLike
Musically, it’s really beginning to take off now
LikeLike
yes!!
LikeLike
i thought it was already taken off from the start! i listen to lots of version of il trionfo… i’d say more now the storyline is really un-folding.. and you see more of the character (through both their vocal + visual actings)
LikeLike
This second aria seems to fit SD better. Mix of rhetorics and acrobatics – very convincing.
LikeLike
my favorite thing so far perhaps that the Haim reflection is constantly visible. That’s some nice fanservice
LikeLike
no, it’s not a reflection, it’s really is her! (oh wait, it is, i just saw her hands backward.. indeed i was enjoying watching her)
LikeLike
wo, the Tempo tessitura is really a lot lower than Mitridate. But Spyres does it really well, too.
LikeLike
oh yes, i noticed that through Lang’s clips too!! that the ENTIRE range seems low, and then i head E.Haïm described it as “baritono-tenor” or something like that
LikeLike
I also think the recording has a really light one in color – Lehtipuu perhaps?
LikeLike
wait… legs…
LikeLike
Absolutely? I also like Bresliks version very much, this is different but very good, too
LikeLike
is that Breslik on the recording? Completely different, and both very good.
WOW, that melisma Spyres just did.
(makes one wonder – this whole aria – where he will go. I’m thinking Troyens right now.)
LikeLike
Yes, I’m quite sure it’s Breslik, very good in duet with Prina (if that’s the recording we are talking about)
LikeLike
the older Haim? Yes, I think that’s Prina.
I don’t have the covers here – it’s on my kitchen forever CD, my own burn mix.
LikeLike
Maybe not the father after all?
LikeLike
eh…are they trying to add an abuse angle?
Is Bellezza supposed to be pregnant, too, hence all the sickness (not the sea this time!)
— also, I don’t get the set yet. Why the theatre/cinema?
LikeLike
didn’t they mention somewhere about life in theater? the “live broadcast” age where you can play out drama on live tele?
LikeLike
the duet, otherwise also know as the finale duet (music) to Händel’s “Ariana in Creta”
LikeLike
I definitely have to listen to this again without the video because I think there is very much distraction, good and not so good
LikeLike
I am still waiting for something beyond the drug angle.
LikeLike
oh, but the duet is working out nicely. The coloratura was perfectly in sync.
LikeLike
how charming, S.Mingardo on a 1950s typewriter
LikeLike
someone has to write the fanfic! (not much material so far, though)
LikeLike
So he is the Prof and she the secretary?
LikeLike
no, i think it’s the other way around but he couldn’t type
LikeLike
Agree, but miss Hallenberg…
LikeLike
*sigh* Hallenberg!
LikeLike
yes.. i thought of her immediately on Piacere’s first note… it would have been sooooo good to see her mixing in here…
LikeLike
more material for the typewriter, too!
LikeLike
UN PENSIERO NEMICO DI PACE!!!
LikeLike
this “B” section is my favorite so far… something so fragile about her..
LikeLike
and small typing on how impressed i’m with these super-natural runs in the “A” sections.. (and the orchestra with the drive!)
LikeLike
yes, true!
LikeLike
🙂 🙂 🙂
LikeLike
and she manages to make the B part just as interesting, and even more touching.
LikeLike
ah, a chance to see Haim at work again!
LikeLike
Un pensiero, Wow! (And I like FF circling on the chair, much better then the dancing)
LikeLike
also, daaaaaaamn, those runs! Go, Devieilhe!
LikeLike
okay, the added twist is the contralto in a negligee.
Prize question: Does she get to kiss Bellezza, too?
LikeLike
on top of the typewriter!
LikeLike
I second this motion!
LikeLike
again, i like his recit!
isn’t the role a bit high in range?
LikeLike
for Fagioli? I don’t think so.
(fo the moshing dancer, perhaps)
(And Devieilhe looks better in his jeans anyway)
LikeLike
oh, that was his jeans! i don’t mind the dancing.. they look a bit like these indoor people i see on the treadmills on my walk home.. and now i see hime dangling on the pullup bar too, see! advocating exercising 😉
LikeLike
always advocate for the pull-up bar! (ah, Paris…)
LikeLike
Oh no, more dancing, Ah, you were right, Anik, she’s definitely pregnant,
LikeLike
Lang mentioned that Devieilhe is pregnant. I’d guess about 4 months?
(hope she’s past the nausea part. Because all that fake throwing up and curling up on floors… ugh)
LikeLike
here she comes…
LikeLike
i melt…
LikeLike
with the pearls!!
LikeLike
and Spyres with the cigar! I’d cast him in some Agatha Christie immediately.
LikeLike
oh, look at EH conducting Mingardo with this aria. Time-stopping.
LikeLiked by 1 person
forget the pills and the coke. Bottle me this!
LikeLike
low note alert..!
LikeLike
(still melting on the floor…)
LikeLike
She’s not his secretary after all, he seems to be proud of her success
LikeLike
to sum it up professionally:
Guuuuuuuuh. *melted like a grilled cheese*
LikeLike
looping back.. it’s almost illegal to be that expressive with such a voice!
LikeLike
(ps- oh, just a thought: tempo and disingano might be all in her head?)
LikeLike
oh, I like that idea.
LikeLike
omg, the orchestra!!
LikeLike
Here comes a bit of Mitridate through, he really has stage presence
LikeLike
“Tu, che fidel mi sei” (we need 2 more certain sopranos…)
LikeLike
haha, looks like both our minds went to Paris.
LikeLike
One, Spyres does have a certain foxiness in this role. Two, damn, those trills(double beats) right now! (if I am not distracted by Greek sopranos in his presence, I am really impressed by how good he is)
LikeLike
omg, the music to this quartet, gets me every time (i think it’s a quartet? SD currently having a go…)
LikeLike
i *really* miss the warmth of A.Hallenberg’s voice
LikeLike
(they could really paint his fingernails, blood red fits him)
LikeLike
Gosh, the continuo group…
LikeLiked by 1 person
yes, more beers are in order.
LikeLike
for intermission i want to listen to this bit again, super like the music
LikeLike
SD, who looks far better in those maternity jeans than anyone should.
And yes, this one – it’s a duet?. Also, Fagioli as a flamboyant drug dealer does have a weird Conchita vibe to it. Not bad.
LikeLike
I am wondering whether I would buy Hallenberg as the drug dealer. She would act the hell out of it, I’m sure, but her voice is so different – so much “this is why you can still believe in humanity”, and not really fitting in with flamboyance or camp.
LikeLike
but i still want to see 🙂
(and that was the end of le fantom…)
LikeLike
and i really have issue digesting his voice.. even live in Silla
LikeLike
Silla was so different, though – much more even, controlled, and the whole approach much more lyrical. He gets to try out wilder things here.
LikeLike
i think his lower frequency oscillation that trips my brain (not vibrato i think? but quite larger period, ~ 1/s )
LikeLike
now I should probably be smart and know that film excerpt, but I don’t.
LikeLike
Derrida. Figures. At least not Lacan.
LikeLike
while you decide on what to do during intermission, i’ll allow myself to go back to the quartet 🙂
LikeLike
Intermission – should we keep it running, or rewind something, or fast-forward to pt. 2? Agathe has the early schedule tomorrow.
LikeLike
you tell me how you’d like, i’m flexible… (currently seeing SM intently watching SD singing, she just sighted slightly… you’re gonna have to drag me off staring at her…)
LikeLike
will clean up the kitchen for a few minutes and then check back!
LikeLike
cool, that means i can rewind this yet again!
LikeLike
I have just let it run so far but wouldn’t mind forwarding
LikeLike
ok, we wait for a few minutes when Anik back from cleaning kitchen and we proceed? (and i just backtracked 2nd time to quartet…)
LikeLike
ok – give me 5 minutes to clean up (and to thadieu for another rewind) and we skip to pt. 2?
LikeLike
Part 2 starts at 1:45
LikeLike
ok, thanks! scrolling there now!
LikeLike
are you with us, thadieu?
LikeLike
just done rewinding 3rd time… i’m reading to roll whenever Anik is. (but will come back for the quartet again, *love* the music + mix of voice. SD is sooo good in singing this)
LikeLike
OK, have started again
LikeLike
yes, me too, rolling
LikeLike
ok me too!
So is this cinema, or is this a lecture hall? or an anatomic theatre?
LikeLike
so, is Tempo still the father figure? Or an other father figure? Or another version of it? Or the ghost of Derrida?
(And another beer for the oboe!!)
LikeLike
oh, he cut off his hair! and ditched that “adorable” sweater 😉
LikeLike
he did pull off the sweater, and that takes something!!
LikeLike
am about to raise my hands and wave my lighter at the screen
LikeLike
Sigh…
LikeLiked by 1 person
also, the corpse is breathing very comfortably. (the drug dead ex-boyfriend, I guess?)
LikeLike
which just goes to prove that EH+SD+this oboist = raising the dead.
LikeLiked by 1 person
i recall Lang mentioning passing out or something…
(just to repeat what you said.. but i reallly love her way of singing this.. part of the staging of the character, but revealing a troubled youngster with original view of “beauty” in life..)
LikeLike
I love this Piacere aria. Hnnng, the drive from the pit!
(I am THIS CLOSE to starting with my young Marlon Brando comparisons again!)
LikeLike
(more trouble digesting his singing…)
LikeLike
[i have a theory: i think our brain is prone to a certain “oscillation” and mine is really to FF’s frequency , so i can not hear his musical expression because the only thing i hear is the pronounced oscillation]
LikeLike
…that might explain my issues with DH, too!
LikeLike
his has no uniform sound, but I don’t mind that.
Looking at him act – and the grace he had when it comes to movings his hands and his head here – I wonder if he has ever been cast in a female role; I think he could sell it, voice included. And it is completely different here than his Silla, which was much more sober, much tighter also in physicality. INteresting.
LikeLiked by 1 person
yes, i really like his acting. the non-uniform sound, i guess if one is a fan of VK one is not having so much issue.. again i think it’s the bit coming in and out of audible range for me.. but enough on FF.. SM is now arriving for the “family” gathering while SD is singing more heartbreaking tunes to viola da gamba
LikeLike
so different to AH. But his voice works from a staging point of view
LikeLike
thinking along very similar lines here!
LikeLike
SM is pleased at the table arrangement
LikeLiked by 1 person
i’ve been thinking about her character, she’s constantly smiling “happy with herself” , sort of this “disconnection” we have in life when our immediate surrounding is passing us by with their content and not understanding what troubles one’s specific mind..
(oh trhahreexcuseme she’s singing…) omg, that loooooow “O” to the rose…
LikeLike
oh, that is a very good take, with the “disconnection”. I like this view!
LikeLike
so basically… the dead boyfriend went commando underneath the sheet just so Piacere could pull it up for half a second?!
LikeLike
i can’t believe you saw all that.. i only noticed SM at the table to harpsichord + viola da gamba (and SD in tank top to heart-break tune…)
LikeLike
he did lift the sheet! Not my area of expertise in general…
LikeLike
I think with the complete change of looks for Tempo, and a bit also for Disinganno, I go with “imagined assortment of parental roles”, as thadieu suggested.
LikeLike
it came up when she said “i’m with you Pleasure, but Tempo and Disinganno are always here too?!”
LikeLike
..quite unnerving parents. But these two are really very good in their roles.
LikeLike
Also, I’d say SD is past month 5. (which is not relevant at all, I’m just trying to remember the stage of that)
LikeLike
Contralto Rosenkavalier!
Now this is a concept I can get behind.
LikeLike
omg… (how can i invite myself to this table…)
LikeLike
…onto this table!
LikeLiked by 1 person
can we say this role is really perfect for her voice?!
LikeLike
and a “deep” touch just before the end… somebody helps me…
LikeLike
yup!
LikeLike
could I have a glass of that wine, please, before I pass out over the low notes. God!
LikeLiked by 1 person
And Bellezza is sneaking out again, an still not eloping with the nurse? This cannot end well.
LikeLike
(Piacere just entered without opening the door!)
LikeLike
more mitridate.. somebody opens the hall for the other 2 sopranos!
LikeLike
😀
LikeLike
And if this a lecture hall: why does it have cushioned seats, and mine do not?
OH, QUARTET SINGING! (but he he stole that one from himself, too)
Overall, I find the staging – unless there’s a big final reveal – too much on the illustrating side. Yes, drugs are a logical analogy to translate the plot to today, but I am missing a stance on that.
LikeLike
oh no, the table is messed up, aunt Sara might have a breakdown!
(but i *really* love her slamming-hand to the table!)
LikeLike
Now, this is really fun, very dysfuntional indeed and everyone acting the hell out of their roles
LikeLike
still getting a weird abuse vibe between Tempo and Bellezza.
LikeLike
Spyres still hasn’t recovered from this kiss…
LikeLike
😀
LikeLike
i was miffed she didn’t plant one on Disinganno too! they staged them to have too much disconnection for any potential, argh!
LikeLike
oh, but then we’d be in danger of a heart attack, perhaps!
LikeLiked by 1 person
dang, for a moment i thought the swap this aria to the contralto.. almost pass out..
LikeLike
I fully expected SD to sing it and then remembered that it’s for the mezzo.
An we are used to hearing so much as an earnest lamento in the Cleopatra version that it’s really a 180 to have it set up as some leisurely seduction.
LikeLike
in contrast, i’ve only heard it in this before… just done dangling off the pull-up bar to it, i did enjoy his singing there. i guess when it’s *very* slow it works for me
LikeLike
…Agathe, Tempo has still not recovered!
LikeLike
I wish I’d finally graps the placing of the extras in the auditory.
Also, who is going to propose to whom with that ring?! Do the parents want Bellezza to properly marry her (formlery?) drug-dealing boyfriend? Is Disinganno reminiscing about her how marriage to Tempo, or about to pop the question to Bellezza?
…hm. okay, it’s not a ring. Again with the “mirror” and the jewels? Ah je ris de me voir…?
LikeLike
oh, you’re 1/2 min ahead of me.. OMG the duet…
LikeLike
more hearteyes at the continuo group!
LikeLike
meanwhile, I’d still want to get at that table. 😉
LikeLike
i need help if she keeps laying this warm “bed” on this table…
(is that a viola da gamba?)
LikeLike
so…Bellezza is dressing in a communion dress and Piacere is pissed? Who cares, when the otehr two are dueting like this!
LikeLike
yes, SD will have to excuse.. my brain shuts down when SM is singing like this…
LikeLike
just when I retrospectively got envious of her maternity wardrobe she changes into this..
LikeLike
😀
(That time you get to spend 5 months in two pairs of trousers and nobody will say anything! – Though I never looked this good in them)
LikeLike
The duet, nearly as good as the Prina/Breslik Version 😉
LikeLike
his (Spyres’) voice is very nice, but i think it’s not as light as Breslik? it’s got this darkness to it and he’s taking it very “light” in texture/heft here to match well with SM… (ahhhhhh, the violins rising…. ahhhhhh.. hellp…)
LikeLike
😀
LikeLike
ah, so the glass casket is a smokers’ box? very u-to-date…
LikeLike
oh, i must have missed something drooling over the duet.. she’s now being committed to the monastery? (what’s the equiv for the version with the cross?)
(and i think she’s about the sear my hair off… oh not her, him!)
LikeLike
this reminds me a lot of A.Bonitatibus…
LikeLike
and a visual..
LikeLike
…there is Bonitatibus in that picture?
LikeLiked by 1 person
…and Bellezza is breaking up with her boyfriend and entering a cloister? Or marrying him?
Oh, COME NUBE! This suits his virtuosity.
LikeLike
Somehow I am slowly warming up to Piacere
LikeLike
do you mean vocally? because acting-wise i like his acting a lot
LikeLike
Disinganno and Tempo are SO DONE with the mediocre Bordeaux. And the boyfriend.
LikeLike
Both, as far as I can ever warm up to a CT
LikeLike
Maybe they have to accept Piacere as son in law?
LikeLike
son-in-law? but the bride is not convinced! yikes! argh!! what is she doing! 😦 😦
LikeLike
is this as how PP put it: she’s determining her fate rather than letting others take control?
LikeLike
…because Bellezza is pregnant?
LikeLike
i guess we have to question if they really put that in as part of the staging?
LikeLike
So, Bellezza just slit her wrists? …but why? Not getting it.
(but hey. as long as she keep singing, I won’t ask much about the staging.)
LikeLike
I thought she would vomit any second
LikeLike
due to pregnancy or staging…?
LikeLike
Or is this supposed to be a comment on the impossibility of gaining access to truth and reason in today’s superficial, hedonist society that is so much focused on physical “beauty”?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Very nice interpretation. But maybe they haven’t thought that far and she is just totally fed up with her patronizing parents
LikeLike
then you’d have bourgeois institutions (like marriage) killing Beauty, and forcing Beauty away from enjoyment, perhaps? Also an intriguing idea. But then, what is with all the zombie beauty queen extras?
LikeLike
i still see her as a lonely individual with imaginary “figures” .. will need to work Piacere into this somehow as to whether he’s real or also part of her “friends”
LikeLike
oh wow the violin…
LikeLike
I don’t care, just keep singing, all four of you.
LikeLike
Devieilhe is marvelous here. As is the orchestra.
LikeLike
the others are watching her to her last breath… also sort of today’s society of “filming” and “watching” culture
LikeLike
wow. unbelievable singing.. that violin is totally tripping me (in gorgeous way)
LikeLike
yes, and being unable to connect or feel, and being trapped in “beauty” ideals, perhaps? Including the boyfriend ghost who is the only one crying? (and who got replaced by the drug dealer?)
I’d love to hear the initial pitch for this, what the core idea was. Because I am not sure I am getting it. (if we are even supposed to get anything beyond associations)
LikeLiked by 1 person
we can continue the analyses with time! there were some videos of explanations but i can’t say my french is good enough to understand fully. there’s 1 video with EM explaining the music..
LikeLike
i don’t understand all the nuances of the staging but i really like what i can work in my head. really love the “dark” atmosphere to the story, works much better for my mind than the “flirting” version typically seen
LikeLike
Fort me, while I liked parts of the staging and especially the way it was acted, it was too much unneccessary distraction form the music
LikeLike
:-), i’d like to report i was not distracted at all (except when SM is arranging the table.. and her facial expressions..)
I really like it. and while you both now go zzz, i’ll let it run again the whole thing…
LikeLike
I’d like to hear it again without the images, to only focus on the sound.
I don’t get all bits of the staging, I think – I find it a good analogy overall (which may not carry an entire evening), and I also want to rewatch the second part to see whether I can figure out a few more things.
LikeLike
i can dropbox for you the radio version
LikeLike
that would be great, thank you! (I’ll probably scrub the floors again voluntarily with that in my ears!)
LikeLike
tell me, is this ‘wicked’ smile established part of SM’s fascination?
LikeLike
oooh yes.
LikeLike
ahhh…
LikeLike
So, off to bed for me, looking forward to more discussions.. Good night!
LikeLike
good night! (i wondered if you might be a bit too influenced by the 1st edition of EM’s recording? i have heard sooo many diff versions hence *really* enjoying this! )
LikeLike
You may be right here, but I also definitely enjoyed this! (actually I would spontaneously even prefer SD over Dessay) Maybe the staging didn’t have such a distracting effect on you because you had heard the radio broadcast before, so you didn’t have to process so much new information?
LikeLike
And I guess now we have to bid Agathe goodnight? (I am yawning already, as well)
It has, again, been a great pleasure to share an opera evening with you. Thank you for playing along.
Perhaps we can figure out a date for Così next week in the next few days?
LikeLike
sounds great! just done eating breakfast here. guess what will be playing while i debug the code for the afternoon? 😉
yes, Così planning sounds good! (i miss PP with her leather jacket, fantastic hair, gum chewing, and bike helmet!)
LikeLike
perhaps we have to start doing “vintage viewings” as well – for that Così, or also for Paris, which we did not watch together
LikeLike
Oh, and not Paris, but Brussels: Tomorrow, I’ll post the last part of the “Bond” Mitridate. There’s one shot in there especially for you, I’m sure you’ll recognize it. 😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes please to Cosi, I watched the first few minutes and I think there’s lots of discussion material.
LikeLike
How’s your social calendar next week, Agathe? Any preferences? I could probably free up most nights as of 8:30 p.m. And thadieu? May we impose upon your lunch break / breakfast again? I’ll also check in with towanda, she mentioned she was up for some more Ruiten.
>
LikeLike
Next week, I’m free Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. Or the weekend? But I could only do Saturday.
LikeLike
Perhaps Thursday again? …thadieu, how are your meetings next week? (Also, towanda – interested and any preferences?)
>
LikeLike
Thursday would be fine for me 🙂
LikeLike
i put the radio broadcast here. it contains 2 very nice interviews at intermission, 1 w/ EM, 1 w/ SD, (and i think 1 with the director too, haven’t gotten there yet tonight..) . watch out for the strange Spyres’ evil twin brother competing with him singing just before the quartet… at first i thought i had 2 things running.. but it was a glitch in the original radio broadcast (their stereo system went truly stereo 😀 ).
SD has very nice things to say about the director and about EM.. and EM has some very nice things to say too about him, as well as about SD and SM..
(my french is a bit too broken to hear what she said the director asks her to do toward the end of the interview..)
(if i hear correctly she said EM contributes with the da capo.. which also makes me think of the Paris Mitridate..)
(and indeed the “good news” as Lang report, and this is the last on-stage opera she will perform for the next few months..)
LikeLike
If you add in the Da Capo sections like this, it points towards a series of visions/imaginations instead if one coherent narrative. Thank you for putting it up, I am looking forward to the interviews! It is so different when you are part of the development or even just see it grow over a longer period of time before it’s all done. What I truly appreciate is that it wasn’t just pretty and the flirting approach – it made me think, and I am still thinking, also about the issues that Lang just raised. It felt more like something was at stake – a little ham-handed in the imagery, perhaps, but do we start thinking if we get not jarred out of the lure at some point? More food for thought.
>
LikeLike
The “Good news” , yes SD announced it on twitter at the beginning of July. 🙂
She had cancelled all engagements until Jan 2017.
LikeLike
Seems to me you guys had a great Trionfo night, took me some time to go through the tread! Yes Anik that short film for sinfonia was quite a jolt, seeing SD dancing and seeing them tongue-passing the pill gave me a mixture of no-I-don’t-want-to-see-this and oh-but-the-heartthrob! I’d watched it many times ended up cropping that part out. I think four of them did pretty good job as actors, especially FF and SD. Is Krzysztof Warlikowski more of a film director than stage director?
Yes I also like the idea of Haim’s reflection on the front surface/mirror of the glass casket.
I agree with Agathe on distraction of the stage action, especially the extras, reducing their number and appearances wouldn’t hurt, for my liking. It is perhaps only me but what’s with that drug taking boyfriend’s re-appearance time and again? Isn’t he supposed to be dead? He gets on my nerves. If we need an image of indulgence and seduction, FF’s Piacere is always there, why an extra.
For the singing four of them are all good, although I do have to warm up to FF. As Anik said it, sometimes he is just too much of a Bartoli! SD and SM are both very, very impressive. As I said before, the “Un pensiero nemico di pace” stunned me, hearing her flying, diving, descend and ascend from it, with such a bold da capo. Normally “Un pensiero” gives me excitement, but this was so intense it struck me with tension, and I liked that tension. Isn’t that what “nemico di pace” is for?
As for this stage production and its message, I will share my interpretation here and would love to hear yours. As we know the libretto of this oratorio was written by Cardinal Benedetto Pamphili and it was meant to be moral teaching, moral teaching it was, with allegorical characters. I can’t ascertain whether Handel wrote composed it for moral teaching or not but the music itself was as dramatic and beautiful as anything – would such expressive beauty of music (already very close to opera, which was banned in Roma) count as pleasure? And should that be refrained or given up, too? Was Handel’s music constructive or destructive to the moral of the oratorio? I can’t say.
Anyway, that was that. Now translated into 21st century narrative by Warlikowski, what I get is not triumph of time and enlightenment, but rather, the tragic death of beauty. Beauty stifled by time, regulation and formality. Beauty was portrayed as adolescent, rash, and self indulgent, and of course, beautiful. But beauty is also self destructive. Disinganno the character is portrayed as quite sensible and detached (as amicable as SM the contralto can be), she tells truth as it is, under a cold light. Is Beauty enlightened by the end? Enlightenment or rather, disillusion? What I read, as a modern day audience, from this stage production is that order and formality (he made reference to religion too, with the IHS emblem on the front of the robe that Beauty was made change into) stifle creativity and beauty.
But my question is: is drug, sex, delinquency beauty? Is death the destiny of beauty, Mr. Warlikowski?
This is something I find difficult to swallow. Mr. Warlikowski added a bit too much of his own agenda to this oratorio.
Nevertheless, I bow to the musicians: the soloists, the orchestra and the marvelous Emmanuelle Haïm.
LikeLike
Thank you for your insights, Lang!
Perhaps the central question (or one of them) is whether “hedonist” beauty always comes with some self-distruction, with some self-centeredness, some self-indulgence… and whether that simply belongs to it? Is any form of beauty imaginable without a touch of this? (and is Warlikowski’s take to show this impossibility of beauty to exist within full rationality and regulation and (spiritual) transcendence to simply take it to the extreme so that one really has to stop to think about it?) Does beauty and creativity depend on a grain of cahos, at least? And what is beauty, even? It looked like it was a conscious point that it is NOT the zombie beauty queens.
So perhaps death is always inherent in beauty (where Rilkesque, actually), to a point that has here been extended and made more visible, and perhaps not drugs, but giving oneself over to a mindless state, or letting go and giving in to pleasure in general (through drugs of choice, or sex), and following one’s impulses instead of rules is a necessary part of beauty/pleasure? Can it be balanced with civilized existence, or not, ultimately? (is this a take on the Nietzschean Appollonian/Dionysian?)
And the counterimage really is not Time, but Disenchantment: removed from “beauty” and emotion and kept in shallow self-indulgence just as well, because without a bit of chaos there will be no real feeling and no real challenge…?
But then all these aspact are tripped up by the beauty and sensuality of the music – e.g. Disinganno projects so much warmth and feeling, there is “true” emotion everywhere, so beauty can happen, and it can happen within a certain order…? Is it about the balance? And is the balance sonically possible and present, and philosophically not? Is it supposed to be an unsolvable contradiction of thought vs. senses also on this meta level?
…should I open a new thread, if you’d like to discuss this more?
(also: they were passing a pill in that movie clip? That detail must have slipped right past me…)
LikeLike
Thanks for your reply/questions, yes a new thread, why not 🙂
LikeLike
Ok, will organize one now!
LikeLike
Yes they did. Search “Il Trionfo sinfonia” on YT for easy access.
LikeLike
…just went back and checked it (possibly three times… ehm…)
you were right. I must have been distracted!
LikeLike
Agathe says:
July 28, 2016 at 21:19
Oh, I just thought she would run away with the nurse
——————————————-
Line of the day!! 😀
That nurse certainly has the vibe, and that attitude
LikeLiked by 1 person
@thả diều can I ask for a favour: where can I get a radio recording? 🙂
LikeLike
I think thadieu posted the DB link in her comment – just follow it to download!
>
LikeLike
did you see the link up there in my comment Lang? the timing is almost coinciding with your first comment on this thread.
LikeLike
Ah, got it, I had thought it was only interviews, thanks Anik and Thadieu!
LikeLike
OK, I put up another of Disinganno’s aria, with Tempo’s leers, and Nurse with an attitude (she looks Italian, and Bellezza was looking at her across the stage and ran after her briefly, or was that for the handbag……)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Did you notice Piacere staring at the nurse? And I agree with your earlier post about the male model. Piacere’s presence would have been sufficient (also, he’s a better dancer).
LikeLike
Now you said it, yes I see, he was so staring at her!
LikeLike
Thank you!
(ah, who needs handbags. Focus on the nurse! 😉 )
LikeLike
obsession on orange alert. i can not believe i did not see the nurse at all until now 😀 . but did anyone notice Disinganno was fixing her lipsticks too? now i finally get Agathe’s comment of Bellezza running after the nurse..
LikeLiked by 1 person
…actually noticed Disinganno with the lipstick first. But also the nurse! (only yellow alert here?)
LikeLike
no, she was completely off my radar.. i tell you, tunnel vision, works wonder in prevention of distraction 😉
(i still need to eventually locate this glass box with something happening in there that you mentioned..)
LikeLike
…once you get over the EH reflection on the outside?
LikeLiked by 1 person
just to also mention if SM ever smiles at me like that one after she pours the tea, i might grow puppy eyes…
LikeLike
— and the tea might get cold?
LikeLike
wow, now that i pay attention to everyone else in this clip, there’s soooooo much going on! soooo many layers hinting to the whole messy psychology! Tempo in particular is alarmingly perverted.. and this Disinganno is quite manipulative! at first when i noticed her smiling at the table arrangement i did think she was detached from reality and happy with these irrelevant things (a different psychological issue). But now i see her as totally calculated and manipulative.
LikeLike
Manipulative and focused on her idea of order, which also leaves her detached from anyone else, because when you’re too sure you’re right, you don’t try to comminicate to others, you jusr try to indoctrinate them?
>
LikeLike