Welcome to the White Shirt live comment thread for Rossini’s “Le Comte Ory” from the MET (2011), staged by Bartlett Sher and under the baton of Maurizio Benini.
The cast features
Diana Damrau as Countess Adèle
Joyce DiDonato as Isolier
Juan Diego Flórez as Count Ory
Stéphane Degout as Raimbaud
Susanne Resmark as Ragonde
and
Michele Pertusi as Ory’s Tutor.
Michele Pertusi as Ory’s Tutor.
The production is officially available online via iTunes for the (rather steep) price of €20, if youaare looking for a single stream-on-demand. There is also a DVD/BR (and, in a pinch, there is the White Shirt network).
The libretto is available in French/Italian, French only, or German with switch to optional French tab – if you have an English version, please post it below and I will edit it in here.
I’m here I’m here!!!
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great!
thadieu, are you awake yet? One eye open?
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both eyes open, but need to find glasses soemwhere 😀
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ready, set…
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champagne flutes, I gather? 😉
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Hello everyone, jay, children sleeping in time!
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one minute to go, uncork the first bottle of champagne!
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whiskey and soda, at intermission, would that count?
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depends, how do you deal with pink?
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depends, who’s wearing it? 😉
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now that is an excellent question.
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haha indeed.
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Start at 00 sharp again?
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yesh, oh, pink.. i might need sunglasses…
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I’m so excited to be able to join you!
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oh look towanda, there is Fleming for you!
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oh, i missed that.. went washing face, i thought it was JDD giving the intro? and is JDF going to launch into a re-singing of a famous aria? or it’s that other opera?
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that is another opera.
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God loves me. I had totally forgotten about that bit of extra goodness!
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oh, i have been using the word “robust” too generous in the past, this is a robust orchestra sound!
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I had forgotten Degout wears pink trousers!
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I had forgotten how good he looks in them!
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there’s Degout here?
wow, that’s a generous dress! (sudden memory of that DonG at TADW..)
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oh, i see him now. She also looks familiar..
you’re seerious about pink
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i see 1 outlier in greenish.. is she an outsider? 🙂
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I swear I did not trick anyone in lime in there tonight!
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oh, nothing will ever top THOSE dresses.
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though the MET tried 😉
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now the party starts! Love the overture here!
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yes, and I think it interacts well with the staging – the whole “we show the tricks” aesthetic. For me, the evening works to well because it does not try to be more than perfectly executed fun.
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OH HELLO LADY DAMERAU
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once more Dégout in a role where he is pushing around women…
(I wonder whether an older single woman enthusiastic about Dégout would rate as a Dégoutante, and I really need to lay low on the champagne already)
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Yes, unnecessary but at least he directly apologized
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I never really paid attention to it, but straight after that Amsterdam Figaro (where he was fantastic)
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This, “tenor star not there”, was it spontaneous, because of Florez’ baby? Or maybe they pretended because of that?
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I also like Ragonde here – but the voice casting really is spotless throughout.
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oh, who is this mezzo.. let me scroll to the top for credit + chracter name…
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every time I watch this show I think I should google her in something else, too.
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Raimbond built Ragonde a bathroom!
Ah no, it’s the eremitage door.
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lol
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That is a LOT of pink there.
(actually surprising that the only one NOT wearing pink is the professional catholic)
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OH, look, some lime green, indeed!
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and bows. pink and bows. (we may need some lime green after this, just saying)
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The ermite costume is actually very funny already, and his acting!
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he carries this off extremely well, also the right balance in acting comedy, but not overdoing it.
Damrau, at times, is overdoing it for me acting-wise, but here she is perfectly cast.
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Isn’t this the show where JDF came straight to the theater after being up all night at the birth of his child? Pretty amazing to be in such good voice.
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Absolutely, I also wondered about that, and he tells in the break interview he didn’t sleep, amazing, also to be able to slip into the role just like that
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yes, like an hour later or something like that? I think they interview him in the break.
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by which you mean Fleming. 🙂 yes, that’s what I’m remembering too.
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I never noticed how Ory spells “respectable” there!
(of course, after this week, not harmless fun)
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really enjoying Resmark here in the presto.
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Fun! Rossini is good at this, and the singers keeping right up.
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SIgh, Isolier…
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Degout is spot-on with his timing, too.
And how does Resmark even move with this thing on on her head without skewering every…
oh never mind HELLO ISOLIER.
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Resmark is fantastic.
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oh, look who’s strutting onto the stage in leather
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this could also be a pirate movie, with Isolier as Jack Sparrow.
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oh ja, she needs the hat!
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COVETING THE LEATHER COAT.
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and the boots.
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and the swagger.
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I always love the physicality JDD gives him, that mix of swagger and nerves – if you compare it with most of her Romeos, those are much “darker”, not with this slight Cherubino breathlessness.
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yesyes
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and the vocal colours she gives him!!!
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*sigh* and she hasn’t even really started yet! but yes, there is a different lightness to this one, as well.
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(side note, they’ve just released on dvd her Romeo from Zürich)
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I have that and can provide you, live blog?
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YES
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(if we can also squeeze in VK’s Carmen into the schedule 🙂 )
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(we had a somewhat off-line live of that once spanning 3 bloggers, spilling between mine, Dehggi’s, and Anik’s , i particularly remember JDD climbing over windows)
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and i recognize him as that other dude fighting the bulls in VK’s debut of Carmen in Zürich
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“Other dude fighting the bulls” – I hope that was in the program book exactly like that 😀
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and I am realizing only now that I would not need to have worried about the libretto. Subtitles! Which I do of course notice over the Puritan tutor, while Isolier is out of the frame.
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I feel a set of #OryProblems on the horizon.
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although it is another opera that olympically fails the Bechdel test – if the women talk at all, it is about men, plus it’s women talking to a man about their men, and then men talking about those women talking about men…
also I am kind of overwhelmed by the headgear selection. Is it the season to bring out the blinking reindeer antlers already? Would fit right in…
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too much tutor, not enough JDD.
and yes, the headgear is indeed overwhelming.
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I am now picturing the tutor outfit in hot pink.
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*snort* now i am too!
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Gaggles of Girls who Giggle. I look forward to the day where I don’t have to see that any longer as a stage trope for romantic excitement.
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amen to that.
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jeah, i haven’t seen this type of staging in a while.. i’m more with them coming out on bicycles..
oh, she’s also a mezzo, this tooootally pink “enfant”
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apropos bicycles, last night’s Cerentola from Lille was sweet, magical fun. With a great color scheme for the costumes!
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jeah, i saw on your twitter, nice connection bacj to taking out the trash 😉
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couldn’t help myself there.
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oh thank goodness, JDD back on stage.
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SWAGGER
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You’ll have to pick me up from the floor after the next scene…I know I repeat myself, but her vocal colouring!!!
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not protesting. will join you on the floor!
she has such range at her command when it comes to the top – this take always makes me remember that she has repertory like Alcina, too.
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Yes, very easy, but it’s her middle range I find most special.
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more champagne? More Isolier? …both?
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oh, this is like Arsace!
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…distracting!
(well, he doesn’t understand what the person he is telling his plans to is getting at, either!)
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*sigh*
if the “cousine” does not melt away at this…
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shhhhhhh! (sucking in breath through teeth)
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oh those high notes. mmmmm
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The interaction with Florez is also very funny here
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and talk about SPOT ON coloratura.
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can one swagger a high note? that’s what it feels like from JDD
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they’re really good together, I remember from Donna del Lago. completely different setup obviously but they work well together.
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also musically – they both have a vibrato that is more on the fast-and-dense side, and sometimes it stands out, but here, it’s a great balance.
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agreed, they match well, perfect for this.
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I don’t know yet what #OryProblem Isolier on the floor will be, but it will be a problem. At least for my concentration.
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The following scene I watched with my daughter and she adored it!
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DARN that completely unstrained top.
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w.o.w.
the edge in her voice! and “testosterone”
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I think you are behind, you don’t mean Damrau, right?
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no, i ‘m not behind, but my reaction is lagging 😉 , that was meant for JDD
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NOW WE’RE TALKING.
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🙂
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and now for “Masked Ball, the comedy version”: Amelia comes to see Ulrica, and Ulrica tells her to fall in love with her… or something like that.
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the raspberry hair on the medieval Amazons is permanently marring my retinas.
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yeah i think we get it on the pink, y’all.
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I’m not always on board with Damrau’s interpretational takes (or lack thereof), but the sheer level of her technical command is absolutely stunning. It’s like she can tie in EVERY. SINGLE. NOTE. And they ALL open evenly.
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god yes, it’s so stunning. i don’t mind her acting because her voice does so much, it kills me. *swoon*
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i remember being floored listening on the radio to her Violetta in traviata, cant remember from london or met
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….Ragonde trying not to bawl in the bakground! ahahaa!
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i see a lot of “queen of the night” timing 😉
these precise reaction in timing to the music cue is so great
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yes, she has that.
And she cracks me up here every time, it’s like this part is made for her specific brand of intensity.
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Damrau is really fun here, of her acting in other productions I can’t say so much, although, there was her Countess when she was still very young, and she was very nicely swooning over Bacelli’s Cherubino in that one.
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oh, was that the Paris take? I will have to recheck that.
And it’s not that she doesn’t act, it’s rather that, to me, at times it is too much (e.g. in her recent Lucia) – I would never question her commitment there. Probably just a matter of different approaches.
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happy to help you with your malaise, Countess…
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damn. that. was. good.
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haha
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Haha, this is a fun libretto turn, how she so readily accepts the divine interference
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if it means she gets Isolier I think we’re all here for divine interference. 🙂
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oh. my. god. that. note.
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oh, the lady is making a move! ❤
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with her coloratura ❤
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***swooooooooon***
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with her FLAWLESS coloratura.
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FLAWLESS my goodness
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Don’t you just love an opera where the soprano lead pushes the tenor away to throw herself at the mezzo.
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YES.
(though not fond of the unwelcome fondling trope this week…have to say)
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yes, that is overshadowing everything this week, even tainting our opera fun (which if course is a product of patriarchal culture)
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did you guys finish act I yet? just got home 😦
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dehggi!!! welcome – you just missed Damrau owning the house.
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what minute is that?
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just finished Damrau’s dizzying chasing after I.. what’s (her)his name..
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Hi, we’re at 01:03 (Comte Ory unmasking)
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oh, so that’s him!
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i’m now at 1.01.01, JDF is now donning leather, the competition is on!
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oh please, as if JDD would ever not be winning this one (Not that I would protest at the sight of more leather)
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I am at the point of emptying the bottle of champagne over my head. Followed by the ice bucket.
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definitely in need of a cold something-or-other…
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brought the haus down wow
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wheew. *fanning myself*
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now THIS is how you take off a wig.
(also loving Damrau’s reaction. Too bad there is not much more comedy repertory for her in belcanto, she is so good with the timing and that commentary-level)
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now the obligatory Rossini ensemble…
(they all must be wearing secretive mic somewhere?)
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this ensemble is really nice.
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JDD’s tone at this point in the ensemble… it’s just so perfect in color.
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Yes, yes, yes!
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and yes, middle range there – just like you said above.
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oh, haha, i read “our husband” and thought what? they share one??
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LIKE!
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😀
well, then there would be no need for a husband at all.
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yes, the shared one for public relation
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Okay, we can arrange ourselves with that – lavender marriages, pink marriages…
True story: my wife and I once were asked whether we share a husband. To the person who asked, that seemed less absurd than the notion that we might be married to each other.
>
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What a fun scene!
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they must have had a ball, all these singers, a chance to doll out their phrasings + humor , all out in exceptional way!
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fah, I’ll see you for act II if this piece of shit disc drive works…
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oh, wait, i thought their husbands are coming home?
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at the end of the next act. otherwise, we wouldn’t get the drunk nuns trying to take over the castle.
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mezzo and soprando plotting against the tenor. always good.
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yes, that should happen a lot more often.
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a lot. more. often.
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There’s a JDD clip on YT about Donna del Largo, where she interviews Florez and it’s total fun how she insists on her character loving the Mezzo, not him.
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distracted by Isolier and Adèle making eyes at each other.
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our lady is very assertive. nice grasp of red leather
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On my wish list: Go partying with Diana Damrau
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I’ve had beer with people who’ve had beer with her and everyone pretty much agreed on that.
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i can only imagine.
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i was in Munich last year but couldn’t secure a ticket for her Lucia di Lammermoor on alternative nights with Harteros’ Trovatore (which i had 3 tix for)
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JDD is sure enjoying herself. or her character’s self. or both?
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continuing on? stopping to refresh drinks? this is my first party, what’s the etiquette?
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the break is short we barge on for we cannot wait 😉
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got it!
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oh, i didn’t know that was the break. poor Dehggi still fighting her tech it sounds like
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also, Fleming talking about seduced Countesses is very meta against the background of her repertory.
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haha, yes! also, she can welcome me to the world any day…
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omg, more of these clothings
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crinolines and garters, yes, always how I hang out with my friends to relax *eyeroll*
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less pink, at least…
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and those hip things, why the hell would you leave those on?
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I have become oblivious too this stuff, just too much of my daughter’s princess dresses flying around at home
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😀
(yes, whenever i visit my niece i needed 2days to adjust brain)
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We are at acte II, is your DVD working, Dehggi?
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i sent Dehggi a link.. but not sure how long it’d take her to dl
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it’s all right, it’s obviously not my day today and I won’t be any fun in this state. See you guys for another one.
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bah. ja, next time. we’ll just hook u up w/ a digital nxt time. u can perhaps chill w/ some Galou 😉
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…and Galou only. 😉
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looking forward to it, dehggi!
And thanks again for the Orfeo post earlier. Mhmmm, Gerhaher!!
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also, on a side note, who did design Ragonde’s dress?
It makes me want to quote “Wicked”.
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quote it.
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Defyyyyyying graaaavityyyyyyy!
(you asked)
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i did!
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if this were a long-lost Alban Berg piece, or a Brecht/Weill collaboration, Mother Ragonde would run a shady nightclub with upstairs separées, and Adèle would be the star escort. And the costumes would be pretty much the same.
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Haha, Btw, I can like comments now (but mostly forget, have to get used to it)
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protect us from the wicked indeed. and give each other hand massages. ummmmmm
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I wouldn’t fear a tenor breaking in to seduce me. I’d be more nervous about the mezzo already in the room!
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although that nice major/minor play in the fake nuns’ chorus does have a certain seductive quality.
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Adèle obviously agrees.
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Add to inexplicable tenors of 2016 list, although this one doesn’t really fit the scheme
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God yes, my taste in men should probably worry me (in my defense: not my area of expertise)
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towanda is right, there is an awful lot of hand-holding between Ragonde and Adèle.
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hand holding, hands on shoulders….just saying.
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honestly i love Damrau’s facial expressions.
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told you, she is perfectly cast here.
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yep
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Ah, that old Calisto spiel – if she does not want you as a man, try again as a woman.
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re: Ragonde’s dress, is no one else distracted wondering how she, um, stays put?
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trying hard to keep my eyes at a polite level. (though from my experience, at that point, it’s usually tape)
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(ouch)
(notnecessarilycomplaining)
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The music has some very nice turns sometimes quite out of the blue
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yes, it’s like Rossini sat down with some champagne, too, snickered, and said “I’ll just throw that at them, too!”
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This is very bold indeed, but quite successful
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Things not covered in Countess School: How to handle a pilgrimaging nun trying to seduce you.
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oh i think she’s handles it
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The facial expressions of both of them!
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(honestly wanting to punch him now)
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(not) shockingly resembling the tone/action of a certain candidate
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right.
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swinging the coloratura again!
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Defying Tenors 101
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if this weren’t comedy, Ory would be pretty horrible – people who can’t take no for an answer…
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having a bit of trouble with that in this scene, honestly.
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It think he is supposed to only think it? But still….
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jarring to see this as “comedy” and acceptable behavior on big screens
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yes. once you’ve learned to see it, you see that rape culture is pretty much everywhere.
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everywhere. and it’s supposed to be funny?
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exactly. we need to unlearn finding it funny.
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well, not us so much, but still enough people if one does look at the things unearthed in this election.
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yes yes. you could do some transgressive stuff with this opera and have it speak right back to the misogyny, but they’re not doing that here at all. Other than Damrau’s raised eyebrow…
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And now please bring back the mezzo.
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both of them
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#OryProblems: when a troupe of nuns is clearing out your wine cellar.
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good thing i got a whiskey and soda over the quick break, needing to get through the patriarchy…
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yawn, I’m getting myself a drink in the meantime, sadly no sparkling in the house
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oh, good, i wasn’t the only one yawning!
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no women on stage, yawn
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you’re infecting me with the yawning. (though perhaps that’s the afternoon spent on the playground showing)
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and just when you think you’ve seen everything, there’s Degout in a nun’s habit.
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…and with flowing locks.
And he does not look bad, necessarily.
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hard to believe, but no, cute ears. now both dancing on the table.
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and now he is handing out the champagne.
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did Rossini have a friend who needed a job?
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seriously need a milk tea with grass jelly
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What on earth is grass jelly?
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suuuuuppper lovely thingie we have for dessert in vietnam (asia), made from a leaf in mint family i think.
(waiting for the mezzos to return..)
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if I want an all-male cast looking religious, I can tune into “Palestrina”, but at least this one is a bit more fun.
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hey, where’s that famous scene on the couch??? this scene is taking 20min!
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see my theory above, Rossini had a friend who needed a job…otherwise what is this?
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oh, at least one mezzo is back.
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and with a nice eyeroll, too.
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Ragonde is annoyed, too
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oh Ragonde has the headdress again. poor thing.
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Ragonde is channeling Mamma Morten.
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Now here comes the Queen of all pinks!
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I agree. I am also possibly blind.
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and the raspberry hair
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I think what makes the casual sexism worse, and more dangerous, is the flawlessly beautiful music.
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well yes.
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Un page!!
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aaaahhhhhhhh, we are
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why is (s)he happy to announcing the return of husbands? wouldn’t that foil his plan?
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just Ory’s – Isolier may be his page, but he is choosing Adèle over his boss in a heartbeat (plus he is the official candidate for marriage here, not the tenor!)
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don’t worry, Adele, it’s just Joyce. It’ll be fine. 🙂
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welcome back, Isolier.
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don’t get distracted there on your knees, JDD
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Nice fainting, and nice helping by Isolier
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didn’t we witness another soprano faking fainting recently? oh , C.Karg, no mezzo to receive her though…
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though Crébassa tried to save her two minutes later!
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so… the staging plays it as Adèle already in the know. Probably the only way to counter the —-
what was I saying? That Isolier look just threw me off-
-ASDFGHJKL whydoieventrytokeeptalking.–
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“beloved lady…”
somebody help me.
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help. me.
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damn
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oh, it’s not a couch!!!
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somebody cuss out the tenor, please.
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i don’t care how pretty you sing, go. away.
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I would offer you the ice of my champagne cooler, but I think that just melted.
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and all the whiskey went straight to my head with those few minutes of DD and JDD on stage by themselves…
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wow, stalker..
(oh, right, coz he was already in the haus as the nun..)
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just when you got very annoyed at the approaching tenor he actually starts to sing very nicely
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true, but the soprano and the mezzo were doing fine on their own…?
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Agreed, also, an odd choice for a first night (the tenor)
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#OryProblems: when you’re finally orchestrating to get the page out of their leather coat, and then you forgot to lock the bedroom door. #tenorterror
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LOL!
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wow, lovely mixing of voices, esp. the pair on left (or right, depending on your ref)
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but really, they do sound amazing as a trio.
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Trios: one way to spell ‘threesome’.
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actually, it is surprising how many opera plots could be resolved by threesomes.
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?? which ones, have to think about that!
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Juditha Triumphans 😉
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did someone just say Iervolino?
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Ariodante.
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L’incoronazione di Poppea
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I have feeling this is going to be a longer list.
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Aida (though they could kick out the tenor, too)
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in which combination? Seems to have more than one possibility
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that probably depends on the staging and the casting and the interests of everyone involved, but vocally, my vote would likely be for Ariodante/Polinesso/Ginevra.
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Rosenkavalier?
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YESSSS.
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…but making the best of the situation…
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if you can’t get rid of the tenor, at least have him sing?
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DD and JDD interacting is a ridiculous delight tho
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true
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what the hell
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the prudish laughs of the audience?
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uh, she said no, Isolier said go ahead please him, his pleasure does not cost us
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yes, that bit is icky, depending on the staging. E.g. it should absolutely be Adèle’s impulse here to go through with this, no prompting by any of the other two, then (and only then) it might work as “how about we all agree to this situation”.
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not sure of I am more taken with the diminuendi or with the staccati. – more champagne!
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This is actually very male gay as well
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yes, but that’s not what they’re playing at to the big screen audience
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yes, unfortunately.
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from that perspective it was actually a bit sad that both “men” didn’t want to know anything about it afterwards, Isolier even getting a bit mean..
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yeah, that’s what i mean. simply for show rather than having thoughts to the flow, why is Ory not reacting when realizing there’s a 3rd person? what the hell is Isolier doing telling her to keep pleasing Ory, then slide out? to me it’s really just so the audience can have a good time seeing Florez and Damrau, then playing with along for a godo time. urgh, it’s really rubbing me the wrong way.
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yes, that point of Isolier telling Adèle to play along is really tricky. How do you do that without taking away her agency, and without making Isolier/Adèle something that needs a third wheel?
(I will have to think about this some more, too. It never bothered me this much before, but it’s really this week, I think…)
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i think even before this week i’d still have problem. to be honest i’ve always had problem with the photo of the production of 3-some, hence i never got into it: it’s playing to the male-dominated audience. If we ignore for a moment JDD is singing the role and sub in a tenor (or even a CT) i think they audience might even complain. but that’s not the point, it’s more that Isolier here is then just a typical male as well. perhaps somewhere in line with Oktavian? youth + love, but behaving not very different than typical male before him. Particularly jarring again to me is the suggestion to Adèle to please some other guy, regardless of the ending. i understand why it has to be done (though not really entirely, besides that it’s in the libretto perhaps) but again it’s just using the female character as a vehicle to achieve male’s desire.
(i was quite bothered too during that scene of Romeo getting on top Giulietta in Munich and this old guy sitting next to me was super excited nearly jumping out of his seat, urgh, URGH! — again, for context, if you have two tenor going at this, even if 1 is playing the female role, i’m very sure his reaction wouldn’t be the same. it’s about objectifying women. gosh i was quite irked by that guy, clearly some deep issue here 🙂 )
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While I ind of addressed this in my latest reply to Agathe, you are bringing up another very important aspect that I want to underline, and what also relates to Michelle Obama’s charged speech of this week – how difficult it is to erect borders of respect if others keep tearing them down and that woman are so often not allowed to define their own borders. It’s the guy ogling you from the watercooler, it’s the guy whistling after you in the street, it’s the guy in the opera seat next to you who perceives the story as something to be objectified for his own pleasure, with the added horror of this pleasure being solely derived from objectifying female bodies (blatantly disregarding the narrative and the human being involved in it on- and offstage)
And that is horrifying because it is nothing the attacked one can change. No matter how I see myself, if someone objectifies me, I cannot put my fist into their (mostly, his) mind and squeeze out the sexism. And the worst is – and that is perhaps also that has us so livid – is that culture in this situation is more often validating the sexist objectifier than the human being whose self is attacked.
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Yes, I had the same thoughts after your comments last night. Isolier initiating the threesome is very tricky and let’s face it, he’s actually a total jerk to do that! He’s supposed to be in love with her for a long time, so in this context this takes away the credibility of their love story. In fact Isolier is worse then Ory here, because he pushes her into it, using his influence on her, while, otherwise she probably would have said no. To Ory’s credit, I believe he finally would have accepted a No, I didn’t sense any physical violence with him throughout the piece. Would it have been different if Adele initiated the threesome? I’m not sure, in that case Isolier would have been the person possibly abused.
If seen separately from the background I don’t think showing this is a problem in general.
The libretto, yes, I agree, fumbling in the dark without knowing would have been much worse.
In general this also might again be a case of opera characters from former times not acting the way we would find logical from a modern perspective.
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yes, the time change is another important point here – and look at us, we meet for an evening of pink fluffy fun and end up knee-deep in discussing rape culture and sexism. I also enjoyed the scene (and feel guilty about it now) because it just SOUNDS SO GOOD, but I don’t think I will ever look at it again as easy fun.
To my modern day sensitivities, I would not care whether it is Isolier or Adèle to suggest a threesome (or Ory, for all it takes), as long as it is clear that all parties are informed and enter into the situation of their own volition. If Isolier and Adèle, as a couple, decide they want some added action? Fine. And I think one could stage that around he libretto lines.
But of course there is cultural context, and that is also what thadieu points out – because no matter who wants what in an individual situation, we live in a context, where threesomes are usually staged for a male gaze, and where it is usually following a dramaturgy about two female bodies framing a male one. Crude bottom line in that message: women can’t get it on on their own, and they can’t even sing it on their own.
And thadieu has a point also in that it is a different message if you employ two male and one female body and the male bodies also interact (as a notable difference from the straight porn violence fantasy of two men channeling all attentions at one female “object”). Yet despite two of the roles in this Ory scenario being male, it stil comes down to two female bodies, and perceiving these bodies as female bodies in our current cultural context, so yes, this is largely purporting the same tired, sexist cliche. And while it could have been much worse (no interaction between male characters, not putting Isolier in the middle), that does not mean it was okay
(sorry, this is kind of replying to Agathe’ and thadieu’s latest thoughtful inputs, I was not sure where to put it)
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Your latest comment (and others here) and how you feel so strongly about this is making me think further, and I’m really wondering of how difficult it is to produce something that is not offending from any perspective in this scene (and I do feel a bit guilty because I find it quite pleasing, so is that OK from my perspective?). Interesting discussion.
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🙂
no judgement whatsoever on your interpretation or any within our nice group here. From our various discussions on here I know you, Anik, and others are always very thoughtful and aware of the various issues we bring up.
I think in general when any of us suddenly reacts very strongly to some thing, i think there are some aspect in our (past,present) lives that are affecting us more than others. My reaction to this really fits my profile of strongly disagreeing with eye-candies and objectifying women for male pleasure (my impression of a certain situation in general). But i now agree with Anik that perhaps it’s likely much heightened given all these negative things we’re being bombarded with here in the US during this election. I’d even confess that i’ve already shied away from these kinds of productions in my past (i saw the photo of the 3-some everywhere and already had a biased opinion of eye-candies).. but i thought i shouldn’t let my prejudice hinders me from enjoying something that almost everyone else seems to enjoy. And indeed the picture alone is not the issue here, but rather the combined effect that i described in my previous comment, and the current political atmosphere, just set me off.
But i should also mention this is probably why my escape is always to *not* read the libretto/translation just so i can absorb the music.. Because going back in my history, it seems i have many cases in fact become irritated as soon as i understand the story (e.g., Tancredi, and the treatment of Amenaide! or Ariodante, and treatment of Ginevra! or Queen Dido, get a grip!!) I had listened often for 5-6 years to many pieces without understanding the story! This might be the only option given many of these opera stories are really not for my basket :-).
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I love that JDD and DD are just as fed up with the tenor as we are
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this is SO GREAT musically.
(and I find it less sexist to stage it as a threesome with everyone in the know than as that masked farce that has Ory be an utter creep)
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Damrau’s little shrug just SLAYS it, though.
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SLAYS
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mezzo in the middle?
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no, mezzo walking off with the soprano, while tenor has to leave. 😀
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THANK GOD
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why does Isolier get to stay? as page boy on the side?
or is she making an official anoncement she’s switching team? (or that’s for show?)
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she is making it offical.
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pretty sure that *enthusiastic* kiss in front of god and everybody makes it official.
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that classic pirate movie finale shot simply NEVER gets old.
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especially not when the mezzo gets the girl
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as the deities of Baroque opera intended.
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but you are right, towanda – while the scene still comes across far too sexist, imagine how bad it would be with the soprano in the middle instead of the mezzo.
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These knights feel like out of a kids play
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Finally!
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an the extra playing the brother jsut spend 2 hours in the cafeteria and missed the whole Rossini glory.
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haha tenor not even on stage at the end!
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shockingly too little singing for JDD. we need FOUR hours of her as Semiramide! (while we wait until Feb.. i’ll settle with lime green)
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Haha, just rereading some of your comments, gorgeous!
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i have to say the staging is really hindering my enjoyment.. perhaps because it comes at really this wrong time and confirms many sh*tty things we’ve been seeing (not that it’s never there before.. but for the MET to also stage this, that’s too much for me really)
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no, the MET is a conservative house – that sadly fits the pattern. And I don’t really think it is the staging adding it (the staging, with at various points putting people in the know – Adèle recognizing Oy and playing with him, Siolier and Adèle consciously entering into that threesome with him – is actually trying to kick out the worst of it, I would say) – it, sadly, really is the libretto, and it’s 19th century sexism, and an early 21st century audience that still needs to reflect more on sexism, and we see this more clearly and harshly than perhaps ever this very week.
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i still think staging could have done more, it’s playing it all too cute, and rape culture isn’t cute. but agreed also, the libretto etc. and feeling it particularly harshly this week.
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of course the staging is still glossing over much of it – far too much, especially this week. The bitter thing is how the educated/conservative audience (we shall assume the MET as a place where educated and conservative are not such contradictions as in other places right now) eat it up, and how this ties in so much with the mainstream aesthetic the MET plays and serves.
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yeah, may be it’s that. and the fact i’m always shying away from these kinds of operas or stagings (though Tancredi, urgh). But staging 3-some for me, when not done with thoughts, is too much eye-candies, particularly for male audience gawking at a guy and 2 females, regardless of how it’s “supposed” to be
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I give them points for trying – the fact alone they they also have Isolier/Ory go at it and not take that out, e.g.
But yeah, some operas are really hard to do, and some roles with great music (Trancredi) have such sexist lines to sing…
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i think there’s something, too, about JDF really playing it for the audience, that’s what really bugged me. DD/JDD really play to each other, but there’s this sense (to me) that JDF keeps winking at the audience, like, look how cute I am that I won’t take no for an answer, and we’re (well not us obviously) are supposed to laugh along at his antics.
on the other hand, he disappears at the end which is its own kind of commentary i suppose.
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oh, now that you point it out – yes, that is a good point. I wonder if that was the stage instruction (but it is also how he handles the camera. And again, gender divide: the two women don’t try to establish that kind of gaze…)
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i may or may not be re-watching the DD/JDD scene where they’re by themselves on stage again…
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rewinding already *cough*
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we need a cut just of that, because it’s everything.
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That’s interesting what you all say, I’m going to think about that. Now, good night, it was great to watch this together!
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good night, Agathe! I am so happy we go you into Rossini some more 😉
And now it’s off to play the role of Ragonde/Adèle for you, as in “welcome home committee”, isn’t it?
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Haha, sure!
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ok i done ranting. might find something less sexist for the rest of my afternoon 🙂
(sorry to crash the party, but urgh, i need to wash this out of my system!)
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I watched “Carol” last night…is it too soon to watch it again? (the answer to that is always no)
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don’t you watch Carol every night? 😉
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IN MY HEAD yesyes, yes I do.
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i love her dark voice.
(though i’ve been stuck on lime green for a while now.. and heart broken)
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*siiiigh*
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we need to rewrite that. We need to rewrite the whole repertory in a non-sexist way…
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well. We will always have Paris. 😉
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(and lime green 😉 , i might have something burried deep but this character, the way MP portrayed her, is really breaking me heart , which, of course, like Romeo, means endless rewinding..)
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Like Romeo, you say. …
>
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🙂
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I’m off reread all the comments, as well, and to perhaps rewatch a scene or two (though then I will probably need my nightcap…)
it was great you could join us today, towanda, I hope you had fun. Looking forward to the next time!
Good night, everyone.
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I had a wonderful time with all of you (misgyny notwithstanding), so glad I could join you! May it be the first of many more!
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yes, I hope so, too!
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jeah, me too, so glad you could join! so much fun, and added voice to support singers who i ‘m not as familiar with 😀
more to come, at least we have 1 date right? 26/feb? (FOUR hours, JEAH!)
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YES we do have that date, BOY (or GIRL) do we ever!!
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